A discussion about Charles Listers request.

Percival after cooking and eating dinner with the group asks if folks will take a walk with afterwards. And this includes Joan.

As we all walk, Percival speaks in a hushed tone, “I have no way of really candy coating this, but I really want some input from you, Mr. Lister has asked me to kill his mother.”

He pauses and swallows hard, “I am no murderer, but what I need from him is very important. And I want to know what others think about my counter offer.”

Looking around nervously, Percival continues, “I believe Charles is a deeply disturbed man, who has deep set trauma from his father and brothers deaths, and possible abuse when he was a child. One thing I know I can do for him and maybe his mother, is help them with their personal trauma, through a shamanistic ceremony and therapy, so that he and his mother can both heal their trauma and their personality defects.”

Oh Joan is full of questions and excitement:

1. What is so important?

2. Why is it so important?

3. How old is she?

4. What does she do?

5. Who will suffer if she dies?

It's just like the lifeboat exercise! But...without the lifeboat part. 

6. Is she in good health?

7. Is he in good health?

8. What does he do?

9. What is the ceremony?

10. If she is old, like really really old, can she survive the ceremony? 

11. What if the ceremony kills one of them? 

12. What if they kill each other during the ceremony like on Jerry Springer when they both come out they attack each other? 

13. What if she is like really old and going to die really soon, or he has a brain herniation which will pop in like a week, does it really matter if they heal their trauma?

14. If you had a box with a button and if you pushed the button you'd get like a million dollars but someone you don't know would die and then the box would go to someone you don't know would you push the button?

15. What if they make up but then she dies and he's distraught because they had just made up and he thinks they wasted all these years hating each other, then won't he just be traumatized again and depressed about how he spent most of his life? Wouldn't just making him happy be better because then he wouldn't realize how terrible his life has been and whenever he dies he'll be content? 

16. But like what does it mean to "not be a murderer," like the The Stranger.  Like he was just on this big adventure, which like when asked if he wants to leave Paris says yes, but really doesn't care either way because he knows you never really change your life and that his employer had never changed his life but either way both were of equal value. And like Meursault is presented as this like insignificant bureaucrat, which parallels the idea of the Sisyphus Myth, but inside Meursault already knew that people would misinterpret what he did because they can only see it from the outside where communication is flawed and internal is the only real form of communication, like know thyself because you can only be sure of yourself unless you go the existential route and define yourself in terms of the external like kids at the mall do. 

So like Camus is saying to reject all the systems but Sartre's death gives his life private meaning which is actually the absurdist view even though some say it is an existential question. But existentialist anti-heroes are adolescents and exist in a reference frame to others but like Camus you are already old and stuff. So really it's a question of do you solve the lifeboat problem from an existential view or an absurdist view and if it's absurdist it doesn't really matter but it does inside so you have to solve it based on picking those that will benefit you instead of the greater good so really, not a murderer is just trying to construct ethics on a fragile framework undermined by egoism and basic instincts. It's like trying to act human in "human" situations as though human relationships and responsibilities do not exist so their can't really be a problem or wrong way but ironically Camus is also damned because he refused to accept any choice and tried instead to make his own. 

It's like Crowhurst kind of when he comes to the realization that we are gods while sailing, but we all don't get to make the rules, only some of the gods get to make the rules, and it's all really unfair to him, he's like Camus trying to reject all the systems, so he kills himself, which means something to him but not to everyone else looking at it from the outside but Camus kills someone else of course but it's both a rejection of the current rules and human situation trying to act human, but then that system does the judging because it is a human framework. 

I guess I mean like, does it really matter if they heal their trauma, or one of them dies or both of them? Because like, if you don't want to then just don't but the old lady is probably going to die first anyway and if you are going to adhere to some modern existential ethics but have to justify yourself to that existential ethics, then you are probably breaking those ethics anyway. So you might as well break them unless it is the external repercussions you fear because you haven't fully accepted the absurdity of it all which would ironically be the existential view of Sisyphus because it seems so pointless. But the idea constructed as evil, which murder generally falls under, as well as death being tragic, is no more reality than the hole in the center of a donut. 
Like metaphysics is really only concerned about what exists so it shouldn't concern itself about the hole anyway and if the hole is nothing and there were nothing between two object then Descartes would argue that they would be touching each other but the donut hole can't be touching or it wouldn't be a hole.


Like when you asked me why I wanted to learn all this occult stuff and I didn't answer because why do I need an answer if you don't have one, but then either way any answer if equal in value but like internally it is probably because I want something bigger than myself to dominate me out of having to choose a construction of meaning so I'm also trying to refuse the system but instead by surrendering to it...or I'm just lazy...I can't decide but does that really matter because regardless it's still a choice just like staying in Paris or leaving for Algiers was for Camus. 

She then shrugs and says, "I don't know," almost as if she isn't aware of how long she just went on and then says, "I think a lot about these things."

...And I'll just assume that everyone has now stopped and is staring at Joan...

"oh....um...but I guess to like why us? Because if we just deconstruct it from a transactional view point, he could transact with anyone but he isn't like doing that so if it isn't the transaction then what is it? If he is all into better one's self than is he taking the view that for some reason this is bettering us like he is giving us an opportunity...."

Then she gets really aware of herself and says, "Sorry...it's weird...he doesn't like lumps...I don't know...ok...sorry...um...ok...yeah I dunno."

Percival will nod and say, “That... was a lot. Let me first go back and answer your basic questions, before I traverse the more philosophical ones. What is so important to me and why? I’m looking for a book, and trying to obtain information one it and acquire a book in Listers possession that will help me obtain more information on that book, as well as provide more information upon metaphysical and spiritual knowledge I seek.

As for Lister and his mother, she is old, in her nineties, I know she is not in good physical health, I suspect Mr. Lister may not be very good health, despite his pretense to promoting good health and clean living. There would be no ceremony with them both present, it would be two separate ceremonies.  As far as I know, no one has died during an ayahuasca ceremony, afterwords through suicide, yes, but not during. That is why I included therapy as a portion of it all, as facing your inner demons and reliving and facing the worst things in your life, including your own self is incredibly hard, and people need guides so they don’t get lost along the way.”

“Further let me say, that an ayahuasca ceremony, is not a fix all, it’s not going absolve their transgressions, but what it will do is get them to focus on themselves, recognize and hopefully confront their own guilt, anguish, sorrow, anger, etc and how they project it unto others instead of being accountable to themselves for their own actions. And through that hopefully let them rebuild a bit of themselves and deal with, themselves.”

Percival seems to be lost in thought for a moment, “as for your philosophical questions.” He stretches, his hands clasped and stretched towards the sky, “Joan, you probably won’t like what I have to say here, but to be nakedly honest, I just don’t care. Philosophy is an interesting side car to psychology, but I feel the questions and logic loops are useless and paralyzing.”

He stares towards the sky then at John, Joan, and Lucien, “I feel the concept of doing what you want and damning the social conventions and mores is a way of just saying that you don’t give a damn about others or how they view you and eschewing any form of accountability to yourself or others.

I obviously hold little regard to how people see me, but I am interested in how I see myself.

And I am interested in how I see myself spiritually.

And I do not see myself as some feral dog or cat, who just does what they need to live, fucking, shitting, eating, breathing as humans are social creatures, and being a social creature we create social contracts, and contracts are what govern our lives, whether we recognize them or not.

If you enter into a position of servitude to a higher being, you will enter a contract with that being. What you can do, can’t do, when you should do, or not etc and this comes with consequences. Sometimes dire.

The Etunaz requires complete subjugation of the self and sacrifice of everything you are. You cease to be you, and become the Etunaz.

When you make friends with other humans, you and they have expectations of how that relationship will look, they don’t always line up, and ignoring the boundaries, is like ignoring your magic circle and stepping outside of it or breaking it when you have an angle, demon or devil in front of you, and comes with consequences.. sometimes dire. These contracts often expand outside our immediate circles and dictate our expected behavior. Transgressing against them, can have consequences. Such as how people see you, or feel around you, or wether they want to kill you or not.

So when I say I do not want to be a murderer, it doesn’t mean I’m against killing or violence, but that I do not want to transgress in ways that harm me and violate social contracts I have entered, nor do I wish to have spiritual transgressions of doing things that taint and eat away my spiritual being.

I feel that not wanting to murder someone, whom I’ve no personal quarrel with, and who is not trying to harm me, worthy and to so flippantly dismiss the act as something inherently valueless and to be so willing to eschew social mores for murder, then why should I not also eschew the social mores around rape, incest and pedolphilia.”

He continues walking, “no thanks.”

(I know this isn't the ideal place to post but information crosses over during the game and it's just easier to put it in one place.)

While the discussion is going on a security guard from Lister will arrive with a loose folder with several pages in it and will hand it to whoever is closer. He'll say, "from Lister" and drive away.

Inside are several printed pages that are from various reports:
Item 1
Name: Thomas Neugen 
Gender: Male
Age: 48
Home Address: (Gives a home address)
Occupation: Acting Chief of Reporting  
Cause of Death: Unnatural Killing
Strangulation
Witnesses: None
Primary Suspect: Jack Connor aka Percival Leopoldo Ottilius 
Motive: Revenge 
Thomas Neugen was recently suspected in the shooting of Jack Connor at Rare Reads Bookstore. Jack Connor had been searching for information about the person who shot him. Thomas Neugen matches description and pictures from security camera of the incident. 
Case Status: Closed
Case turned over to Guy Hottel; special agent of the FBI NIC/-- 

Item 2
These pages appear to be a photograph of pages spread out on a table. The framing of the shot isn't ideal and it is a bit blurry like taken in a hurry but visible are pages with pictures of the stones from Montgomery's. 

Item 3
Much less of this page is readable and most of the picture is of a desk but it is visible that it mentions "Lucien," "Unknown," "undocumented travel," "Romania," "return is unknown."

Item 4
These pictures appear to be several men meeting. They are all in suits, shaking hands and additional shots show them sitting around a table with papers scattered around. From partial seals which can be seen in the backgrounds the office or offices appear to be federal.